Here's my recent Comment on Verheggen et al. in Environmental Science & Technology.
18 Comments
2/12/2015 10:15:53 pm
Jose,
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Excellent post. It is truly sad what is happening to science with a political take-over. Had I written a paper similar to Oreskes years ago when I was in college, I am certain my professor would have torn the paper up, tossed it in the trash and told me I needed to actual research if I wanted to pass the course. This type of thing would not have been accepted. As of late, I think climate change advocates are their own worst enemy. Those who are skeptical probably cannot do as much damage to the science as the science is doing to itself.
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Barry Woods
2/13/2015 07:34:49 pm
Most sceptics believe in the climate consensus.. ie, earth has warmed, co2 a ghg,man contributes co2, warming caused in part due to man vs natural processes, for varying opinions of how big that part is)
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"In any case, there is indeed a consensus in climate science. It's probably in the 80s though, maybe as low as the 60s for some questions. It's not very meaningful to speak of "the" consensus, since there are a number of different propositions one could pose to climate scientists, and the two sources above do a great job of posing a range of relevant propositions. What you do with that consensus up to you. There will be all sorts of philosophical, ethical, and political factors that people will reasonably apply, and there will be a host of different perspectives along those dimensions. But I don't think climate change skepticism per se is justified. I would love to be wrong."
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MikeR
2/16/2015 01:13:24 pm
I appreciate the post. However, though Bray and von Storch might be useful as a source of ideas, I don't think you can get much from their stats. 1) the survey was self-selected. 2) the response rate was low. Not too surprising, their survey was really long.
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Joe Duarte
2/16/2015 06:11:10 pm
All surveys are self-selected if you mean people choose whether or not to participate. Well, I suppose telephone surveys of the Gallup and Pew variety would not be self-selected, at least not to the extent that surveys of climate scientists are (there will still be people who choose not to participate when Gallup calls them.)
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MikeR
2/17/2015 12:38:30 am
Yeah, well, I agree with you. I liked their survey, but it was _so_ long. And I would have written it differently, but that's just me. It would have been great to have direct questions on climate sensitivity, ECS and TCR, for instance: best guestimate, best guess at highest likely value, best guess at lowest likely value. And also a question on causes for the "pause", or if they think there is one! A question on extreme weather events, whether the respondent thinks that they have changed significantly to date. Etc. - in other words, questions on things that are the actual disagreements that I see today. 2/17/2015 06:35:47 pm
I find it interesting and puzzling that you are very outspoken with your accusations of fraud and corruption at journals like ERL and Psych Science and you are very critical of the AAAS and other scientific institutions, and in the latest comment you also criticise Gavin Schmidt and Realclimate. Yet at the end of all this you say
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Joe Duarte
2/18/2015 03:51:44 am
The reason I don't buy skepticism is that I'm suspicious of overly convenient realities. It's just too neat, too symmetric, to be true. That's just a heuristic. I don't actually know enough about climate science to have a scientific assessment.
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Joe Duarte
2/18/2015 04:18:33 am
It's also worth noting that climate change is not a political issue for me. It has no inherent policy implications. Logically, nothing has inherent policy implications. It will depend on various assumptions, political philosophy, some deep ethical questions, etc.
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MikeR
2/19/2015 02:00:50 am
Am I remembering wrong, or has the AMS survey article been modified since I last saw it? I thought it was this survey that had a chart that I remember clearly, which showed the attitudes of the respondents about climate sensitivity. It asked some question like, what is your best estimate on ECS? Then it had a very interesting graph, where most respondents fell at the median from IPCC (about 3), but something like a third to 40% were down nearer the IPCC lower limit. To me, that was very significant, as it implied that the climate sensitivity, which I think is hugely important, is not part of the "consensus".
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MikeR
2/19/2015 02:02:07 am
Also, hardly anyone was above the IPCC estimate. That was important for me as well, since the high estimate "fat tail" is the source of most of the real disaster scenarios.
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MikeR
2/19/2015 02:08:26 am
Ah - http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/es501998e
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"The reason I don't buy skepticism is that I'm suspicious of overly convenient realities."
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Barry Woods
5/31/2015 09:09:41 pm
Hi Joe:
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JDoherty
7/31/2015 03:56:48 pm
In considering the straits in which the practice of science finds itself, it would be a good thing to remember that while Climate Science is often an example of extraordinarily poor science, there are may examples from other fields as well, ranging from biology to cosmology. There for instance sceptics of the standard model of cosmology, seriously professional and armed with absolutely unimpeachable counter examples to common ideas such as cosmological red shift. The parallels to the problems in climate science are not just similar, but exact. From "adjustment" of data, control of research opportunities and publication venues, circular reasoning to refusal to even discuss the critical features of numerous photographs that call common theoretical assumptions into question. Even the "ride alongs" practice the same forms of misconstrual and outright lying about a sceptic's views. Not just individual sciences but science as an institution is in dire straits because the idea of understanding reality at a fundamental level has been discarded in favour of far more mundane attractions like money, social allies, and political support where a genuinely scientific granting body would ignore or reduce support in order to foster wider research.
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JohnT
1/19/2017 02:15:28 pm
When I read Verheggen my gut reaction was that they didn't like the results of the survey they themselves had constructed (i.e., < 50% agreed with their premise), so they went back and invented a subset that would yield more palatable results.
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